Interviú con Rob Lawson

A great chat with DIY man, poet, luthier, painter, musician Robert Lawson. His many projects are each one interesting and free. Blue text mine, plain text by Rob.
Yo can listen to Rob here:
https://robertlawson1.bandcamp.com/



 Are you?

Rob
yes...fire away

ok mate
when i listen to you several thoughts come. Example: do you see music as a game?

Rob

Well I don´t think about music in the usual way..at least not now.I´m not trying to create songs..more like chapters of an on-going boo. But I guess music is a game of sorts..or it should be!

yea
like re-gain the game aspect of everyting, something i think Bob Black wrote

Rob

When I was a kid I used to sing songs to myself that I made up...it made me very happy and i never felt much need to share them.

And when I first started playing guitar I had no-one to teach me so I just fucked around with it like it was a toy...20 years later i found out that is called Free-Improv!

hahahahaha

yea it is so weird when you find out there is "a name" for things you guess for yourself

Rob

And rules that didn´t exist before

yea

Rob

My first experience of improvising in public was when I got involved with a group of downs syndrome adults doing music therapy

A woman I met wanted someone to provide music for her (and the group) to dance to.She said just make something up when I asked what I should do..and that´s what I did.


and that's not easy

most musicians i know wouldn't have a clue

Rob

No, it was easy for me because i had nothing to compare it to..I hadn´t heard any experimental or inprovised music as such..apart from the Beatles and oddly enough a guitar freakout track on the first Chicago LP my friend owned.

great

Rob

I wquld have been in my late teens/early 20s before I heard all the stuff that inspired me later..Zappa,Sun Ra,Fahey,Bailey..all that stuff.It was pre-internet and hard to find unless you knew someone who was clued up.

yea, i have only reached those artist quite "late" and some of them still are a puzzle to me

Rob

Having said that I was listening to VU and bands like Sonic Youth in the mid 80s.I bought albums like Evol by them and Starsailor by Tim Buckley...

did you have friends that share that music?

Rob

It was all about knowing someone older and cool..I got into the Grateful Dead and Acid Rock by hanging out with friends of my uncles-

Yeah my friends would turn me onto stuff and I would do the same..early REM I discovered by accident which led to bands like Rain Parade,Let´s active and then SST Bands like Meat Puppets,Minutemen and Mission of Burma.Also in the late 80s there was a revival of interest in the 60s..Garage Rock,Psych and progressive stuff

where did you grow up?

Rob

I was born in Germany and lived there until my teens..moved to the UK in 83.

Dad was in the army

Brit army?

Rob

Yes..Dad was a tank mechanic

okey, it sure was a great ambient for music

the '80s were more avantagarde and free

Rob

I think the 60s and early 70s were the best era for a lot of avante and improv music

One of the problems of 80s music for me was the terrible production.Gated snares,cheap reverb on everthing

yea

Rob

Compare early Zappa with his 80s stuff

i was thinking of bands like Einsturzende neubaten, Caspar Brotzmann massaker, Fura dels baus

but i see your point

Rob

They were very much on the fringes back then.Good stuff.I liked some industrial music before it turned all Goth...

i don't wanna gossip too much

but it seems you have had an interesting life

have you travel much?

Rob

Well I grew up in Germany, lived in England and Scotland and then went to the US in the 90s (twice).I would like to see more places but as a musician rather than a tourist.

yea, i know

it's one of the things i really miss: travel as musician

Rob

I was luck to be able to make a living as a musician in the US.Here and now it´s almost impossible if you want to play non-mainstream stuff.

well, even if you play mainstream stuff

Rob

Thats true!

i think is better to go fully wild hahaha

impromptu performances

Rob

Well the Underground is the future I think

trying to hook with local musicians

Rob

Yes keep things at a local level and network with other likeminded people.

I was just reading a book about punk in the DDR in the 80s and they had the right idea

And it´s good to know what you don´t want to do

it seems too far away right now but, everything passes

Rob

Of course..those Punks were a great example..Th Stasi were hassling them right up to the end of the DDR but they carried on..often at great cost

And the sort of music we make doesnt have a sell by date..it´s not tied to a fashion

Rob's bedroom rig

yea i guess there is no rules

Rob

Just the ones you make for yourself

i like to think we are not underground

but something even lower hahahahaha

undercover underground


Rob

Beneath the underground..like Bob Blacks book

great ! didn't know it

Rob

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1206475.Beneath_The_Underground
It´s a great book..imspired me a lot along with Cassette Mythos which was my introduction to the cassette underground.

about the "free improv" scene, do you think there are drags?

Rob

Drags?

bummers

Rob

All music scenes are the same more or less

Rob

I think the best thing about the Free Improv scene is that there is so little money to be made it keeps people honest

Of course i have met some people who acted like they were better or more serious than others..but thankfully not many

and that lead me to the next question: how is it being a rural promoter of a unique fest ? does it lead to stress?

Rob

Ha! No not much stress because I try to keep it simple.

Rob

If I tried to make it bigger and put more promotion or look for a sponsor then suddenly I would have lots of ¨professional´ bands/artists asking to play and expecting to be paid to travel and perform.Since I have no budget at all apart from providing lots of booze that isn´t a problem.

hey! i didn't know about the booze, that's the deal!

hahahah

i love the geist of the Riogordo fest

Well, you mentioned you had a career in music in the US, what style did you play?

Rob

At first Country and western with my friend Mark Byrd and his family and later I toured with a singer-songwriter called Matt Miller.

Matt came and visited me years ago and we played a gig in Riogordo

Rob

I used to do solo gigs there..only local people came and i was doing all kinds of crazy stuff...

about what year?

Rob envió Hoy a las 12:48

2002 up to 2005 more or less..I recorded every gig on minidisc.

It was before we formed the RFO

how the RFO got together?

Rob

Long story!

hahah

Rob

Here goes..I used to go to a record shop in Malaga called Discos Pat

near the central market

Rob

One day I bought a CD by a band called Snakegrinder and the shredded field mice

Very obscure early 70s jam band

I contacted the bass player to find out more about them

He told me he had a friend who played guitar who was moving to Spain

That was Joel Knispel who I started the group with

We joined up with Alain Pinero (on 10 string Warr Guitar) and javier denis on sax

For a while that was the core group but a lot of people came and went

Then we got Antonio dobon in on double bass and Javier left (he wanted paying gigs)

I played drums because no one else would!

Finally my friend jerome tagher bacame the drummer and I switched to melodica and percussion and later dulcimer

pretty nice! do you all live nearby?

Rob with Vague

Rob 

No unfortunately!

Joel lives in Benalmadena and the other guys in Malaga. Jerome lives down near Velez.. We used to get together to play and record and sometimes gig.

The good thing about Free Improv is that you just set up and play..no rehearsals or planning...we have a chemestry after so many years working together and we all listen to each other and give each other space

yea, that's pretty difficult to achieve

Rob

it shouldn´t be!

Ego is a problem with some people

to be honest i could happily sit in the audience for half of one of our gigs and just listen to the rest of them

yea, i know what you mean. I have always had the intuition that it's better to play for the whole song, to make it a whole thing, than to play each one with a different goal

Rob

serve the song

or the music

yea

Rob

and knowing when to do nothing is important.

In another sense of doing nothing..I quit music for a while.

I spent 5 years writing poetry..one book a month and then a year painting.

It was building the dulcimers that got me back into playing again..before that I barely touched the guitar.

I tend to work in cycles and have big projects on the go

didn't you find the muse for playing guitar?

Rob

I played for such a long time..from my early teens to my 40s I ran out of things to say and began repeating myself...

I had a studio set up in the old house and recorded a lot of stuff...260 CDs of music..I did the artwork,ran copies off,sent them off...it became a job but a job that cost me money rather than paying me anything!

I did that for so long..one album a week..playing all the parts (badly) drums,keyboards.bass and guitar...it was fun and then it wasnt...

And now with the dulcimers I take my time..play and record when I want to and keep it all simple...

did you have any goal in mind with all those cd's?

or was it just a creative pulse?

Rob

Fame and fortune?

No it was what I call THE WORK..it what you do that defines you and makes you complete but also hungry to do more.I would finish one CD and feel high for a little while but that would wear off and I would start again

I think you enter a zone when you are playing improv..almost a religious experience..it all falls together

Rob

It was the same when I was a little kid..I would sit in the living room and my mother would put an LP on and I would sit there without moving and fall into the music..then she would come back and put it on again and i could sit for hours like that..totally lost in the music..didn´t matter what..my two favorites were the soundtrack to West side story and the 2001 soundtrack...

Rob

Intoxicated by sound I guess..drunk on sound

Young Rob with sitar

yea, it's a great way of putting it...i think of sound like physical modes

that you can work out

Rob

can you imagine being 4 years old and listening to the 2001 A space odity soundtrack on repeat...

hahahaha

Rob

Zappa said he sculpted air with his solos...

yea, indeed

i meant to ask you this before: any knowledge to share with struggling musicians?

Rob

The struggle is the most important part

Rob

Value yourself and identify yourself as an artist or musician..professional and amateur mean nothing it what you create that has importance

Rob

Also document everything you do as well as you can afford to...

Rob

It may take a long time for your work to be recognized by others.

Rob

Don´t compare yourself with others who seem to be more sucessful..It just leads to a sense of defeat.

Don´t expect the people around you to be interested in your work..most people don´t care...look for the ones who do

Rob

Network,exchange music,encourage others..become part of an alternative world you want to live in...but also be realistic

Rob

making a living wage as a creative person is very hard.I have only done it for short periods of time.Always have a back up plan on a more pragmatic level..keep your back catalogue available and up to date.always take CDs and Tapes to gigs to sell/trade.Always have copies on your person in case you meet someone who might be useful to know...

great advices!

Rob

hopefully!

i think there is lotta knowledge in your words

Rob

You would be suprised at the amount of people I have meet over the years who never kept copies of their music or recorded their gigs or showed up without anything to sell...

man i gotta leave now...

Rob

Cool...thanks very much its been great fun! Keep on creating...

Hi! here again! do you want to answer those questions i have left?

Rob

Sure..fire away

thanks! how do you see the balance between the city and the campo?

Rob

Well...I have lived here in Riogordo for nearly 20 years so I am very much a campesino in a way but I do enjoy cities. I find i can´t spend too much time in London or Edinburgh when I go back to visit without beginning to feel out of place. It´s like time flows faster in cities...lots of activity but also a lot of shallow things becoming important as well.

Rob

I have got used to my year having a spanish structure rather than an english one...by this I mean all the major events here..Semana santa, The Paso (in Riogordo), San juan, The feria in August...these are all community occasions...not about buying stuff...about belonging to something bigger. This is missing in the UK...Christmas and Easter for example are just holidays for most people. Not that I am religious but I enjoy all the processions and dressing up. It makes for a more colourful society with a history...

that's quite shocking and known at the same time for me

i have felt a bit of despair from people of the city (living myself in what was a pueblo)

Rob

Like discos pat that i mentioned earlier...it was the only record shop in Malaga that stocked good music. It was also a great place to hang out even if you didn't buy anything...having spaces where you can meet people, cultural spaces are very important. Malaga had Casa invisible where we first played and now Polivalente...but not much else. Even london only has a handful of venues that promote improv/underground music like Cafe Oto. There are clubs put on by people I know in the improv scene but they dont make money and very few people know about them...

Agree

Rob

In a way if you do what you and i have done...organise your own house concerts or put on a small festival the rewards are much greater...you feel like you have created a little bit of history

and if you document it as well in years to come you can say...´Look what we did back then...without permission, without a budget.

Well mate, maybe i hold some grudges but after years of promoting things in my "pueblo base" i have to say that city musicians are not fond of coming to the "agro"

Rob

really?

some of the best gigs i ever played were in small out of the way places to people who were not hip and cool...

i have had some "cultural differences" he-he with that. I finally understood that they weren't in the same page

Rob

one of my dreams is to get a group of people together..musicians,poets,dancers and play in the smallest towns...places with just one bar in the middle of nowhere and see what happens...

that's so nice, i have dreamed of similar things and even had one weird tour planned

three years ago but my car and the "General Winter" got in the way

hahahahhaha

i got to the conclusion that i wasn't asking for permissions or trying to be "hired" in bars

Rob

I think it´s still possible..just have to contact all the town halls and promote it as a cultural event

Or just turn up and go for it...

Cringe

I worked on a cultural circuit paid by the regional government 20 years ago

Rob

How did that work out?

there was good money in it

badly spent

Rob

We had a yearly festival here paid for by the junta...circus,string quartets,etc.

the only reason the local council took the artist was they "were given the order to" and everything for free

Rob

I got hired once to do a duo gig with a drummer friend of mine..they paid us 300 euros!

That only happened once!

Exactly

Rob

Culture as medicine. Another story

those two years working in the official side of culture were enough for me, i ended pretty burn out
but even that way, i hold more grudges to bar owners

Rob

I understand. When they set up a jazz club in soho in malaga the RFO played there

RFo didn´t get paid because all the previous bands charged too much...including our ex-sax player!

Have you seen the film about CBGBs?

No

Rob

Basically what its like to run a bar with live music

Of course this bar became famous but it was always a shithole

I was lucky here in riogordo because the woman who ran Pub molino was cool.I asked her if i could play once a month and she said yes.

she never complained about the music

I would like to start something like that again

There is an english bar here that has live music

so who knows?

Pub Mollino

i only had a similar deal once, but that bar was dangerous mate, a real den

Rob

Tell me more!

i still don't know how i got free and clean out of there,

very long story, it was a bar in a industrial zone ,

i believe they wanted live music just as a cover

Rob

were you in a band or solo?

They were my times of promoter

i put up like 200 gigs in 10 years

Rob

Wow!

it was crazy

Rob

So you have a interesting past too!

i was working 4 jobs at once in those years

i have always been in and out at once i guess

i 'm glad i did it, but i wouldn't repeat

Rob

I know what you mean, I enjoyed playing country and western but after six months of playing every night I went a bit crazy

hahahaha

Rob

Thats the problem when the thing you are passionate about becomes just a job

Having said that I would love to be able to play hundreds of solo gigs with just my dulcimers

My last gig was at your place and was one of the best ones I have ever played

muchas gracias! we'd like to have you every month if it was possible

Rob

I would love to do the same here

that day, my younger friend said: "it's a pity that few people showed up" but i'd sign for that every time

Rob

I think small acoustic base gigs are the future

surely! i agree and bizarrely we have reached another question: what's your take on the future of live music?

Rob

Im not sure

I think a lot of people will need to scale down their operations.

I have a frriend who is a sound engineer and he hasn't worked for a year now.

For us I don´t think much will change...if anything we will do better if people want to see live music at a local level.

With brexit a lot of UK bands will find it harder to tour europe, but for example myself I could just get on a plane and go play a gig in london very easily.

Dulcimer at home